Just watched “The shape of things to come” again and I was just as floored the second time around – albeit some things stuck out a bit more. First, Ben is truly broken up over the death of his daughter – I think this is the first time he has every been truly “real” in the show. I get so used to second guessing his motives. But the real thing I want to open for discussion is the Widmore/Linus angle. At first, I was thinking Widmore may indeed be Alvar Hanso, and I still hold to that a bit (rich, mysterious benefactor) but now…not so sure.
First of all, we need to applaud the direction and writing of this show in the past couple weeks, Ben has slowly turned into a hero. That’s right, I said it, Ben is becoming the hero – slowly but surely. So – question time:
- Why does Charles refer to the island as “his” (this supports the Hanso concept) – Ben very clearly stole it from him by killing everyone
- “I know who you are, I know what you are” : Charles Widmore. OK, who, I get – he’s the little boy who came to the island as a child, but “what”? “what you are”? “What” as in profession, or “What” as in something more Meta?
- Why can’t Ben kill Charles – are they both linked in some way?
- Now that Ben wishes to kill Penelope, what is Desmond’s take on this? Obviously since he was not on the manifest of 815, then he wouldn’t be part of the Oceanic 6. So he could be off the island in the future.
- How did Ben just “appear” in Tunisia? I’m thinking it has to do with the “magic box” that brought Locke’s father to the island (I am clinging to the mystical aspect of this and not the possible reality that they just went to the mainland and kidnapped him)
- What did the desk clerk at the hotel looked scared when she realized who “Dean Moriarty” was? And in no way, shape, or form is “Moriarty” meaningless.
- I think Jacks’ “stomach bug” is a physical reaction to the fact that everything is unraveling and he is losing control. The thought that he may NOT get these people off the island is literally eating him up inside. Thoughts?
- The SMOKE MONSTER! Holy crap I love this. Ben called it? Of course he called it! He can control it to some point, but kinda like the Greeks controlled the Kraken in Clash of the Titans. What do you think?
OK, that’s enough, let’s get discussin’
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Chuck, I gotta disagree with you completely that Ben is a hero. A man had a gun to his only daughter’s head, and his response was “she’s not even mine, I stole her.” That ain’t hero material in my book.
I can’t really say there are many true heroes in this show. Granted a few of them are flawed heroes, but they are VERY flawed.
Jack – alcohol, his father, marriage
Sayid – torture
Charlie – heroin
Jin – mercenary
I could go on…maybe Hurley is the least flawed.
1. If you read the book “Bad Twin” you’ll remember that the Whidmore’s owned, or had a huge financial interest in the Hanso Foundation. I’m pretty sure this is why Charles deemed it his island.
2. Ben can’t kill Charles Whidmore b/c he is far too powerful and influential a man to be killed without repercussions. Clearly Ben doesn’t want to die, he’s a survivor just as much as the 815 passengers.
3. Desmond is gonna be pissed when he finds out Ben wants Penelope dead. I really like desmond and can’t wait to see him get his hands on Ben.
Ok, i can’t comment on the rest until i think about them further…
But that was an awesome episode…4 Left??? or is it 3 left?? I don’t want this show to end ever.
That was just a ploy with his daughter, the last ditch effort for them to leave her alone. Remember right afterward he said “They changed the rules”? Rules are very important to Ben, the “game” is all about them – and apparently Charles and Ben have been playing this game for a while. So I will contend that it was inconceivable to Ben that they would actually follow through and kill his daughter. That is why he was so cavalier about it before it happened. That’s why he almost shut down and then unleashed the dogs of war on them.
Speaking of which, he seemed very uncomfortable with unleashing the smoke monster – as if that was the islands dirty little secret.
I will concede that the heroes on the island are very flawed (my #1 would be Sawyer).
I did read Bad Twin, but it was several years ago – I’ll need to take a skim through it again.
I don’t agree with #2, I don’t think it’s that easy, I think there’s something more to it. A man of Widmore’s age could very easily have a heart attack, or a stroke – something Ben could very easily “make happen.” I think Ben is more than a survivor – there is something with the island, I belive he feels that he is in service to it, its power, or its continued existence. Unfortunately it’ll take 2 more seasons to find out.
I heard tale that they were going to try and get an extra episode out of the network. So that would mean 4 more.
I’d have to agree with Brett on this. Ben’s a scumbag.
He uses people for his own gain. I definitely don’t think the guy he had Sayid kill had anything to do with his wife’s death. It was a ploy to get Sayid wrapped into his ideas and to start him on the path to being a powerful henchman.
Ben will say or do whatever he needs to in order to protect himself. Resourceful and evil are probably the nicest things I can say about him, but he did come across as a bit of a badass with that whipstick beating of the guys on horseback.
We could be in the process of being setup by the show to buy into him as an anti-hero… but I don’t know, I just don’t think after all he has done people can really get behind him.
Hmm… Are Ben and Charles each others’ “constants”? Or does the island not let Whidmore die, just like it won’t let Michael die? So many questions!
Also, I agree with you that Locke’s Dad wasn’t just kidnapped. That wouldn’t explain why Locke’s dad just thinks he “poof” disappeared and showed up on the island, unless he was coached to say that. Hmm…
I didn’t even think about the “constant” aspect of Ben and Charles. Intriguing idea.
In response to Jason, I think that there is more to the picture with Ben and that he (in his own mind) is a hero. He told Michael “We’re the good guys” at the end of last season. I think that has a lot to do with his motivation. He definitely tried to rope Sayid in, it’s also not entirely out of the question that HE had Sayid’s wife killed and blamed it on Widmore.
Ben is slowly becoming my favorite character on this show, Jack is turning into a wus and Sawyer is cominginto his own. I loved the part when says “Jacob? Who the hell is Jacob?” and figured he’s done with this crap. Awesome.
I agree with you that Ben probably believes he is a hero…And he definately manipulated Sayid to join his cause…look at his face when Sayid decided he had nothing left
Ben is easily one of the best characters in the show, and possibly in television. He’s one of those guys you love to hate. They are gonna dangle that “Anti-Hero” shit in our face and rip it away…they’ve done it a couple times with his character before. Especially involving Locke. And oh by the way, if you saw the preview for the next episode, Locke seems to be falling right into Ben’s plan….again.
Sawyer has always been an amazing character. But again, like Ben, not a hero. He’s out for himself and no one else…the only redeeming quality about him is that he tells everyone what he’s all about and makes no excuses or apologies for it.
Jack is still my favorite character but the writers seem to be making it incredibly hard for him to succeed. With his alcohol dependency, his “Stomach Bug,” Kate, his Ex-Wife, his father….fuckin’ A, who would kill themselves with all that shit…maybe he just has an ulcer.
I’d just like to point out that this may be the first time Jay has agreed with me on anything….woo hoo!!!!
Chuck, Dont watch the show, Im just here to say congrats on being a uncle again. Twice.
Thanks Doug! They’re pretty awesome
Re: Brett’s comment. Interestingly, Sawyer is turning into a hero now!
I know it definitely seems like he’s becoming a hero…but I’m a little skeptical that he’s not going to turn on a dime and cause some rukus like he did with Charlie and Claire back in season 2…
Could you describe the Rukus sir?